This episode explores the evolving landscape of the blue economy, focusing on technological advancements, sustainability, and innovative business models transforming the maritime sector. Key topics include the exponential growth of data and AI in ocean industries, the rise of startups and emerging technologies, the importance of international cooperation and community engagement, and the drive toward both economic growth and ocean conservation. The discussion emphasizes balancing sustainable development with innovation, the integration of new fuels and autonomy, and the expanding impact of ocean data across industries.

Jeff Dance: In this episode of The Future Of, we’re joined by maritime experts Kendra MacDonald and Caitlin Hardy to explore the future of the blue economy. Thanks for joining us.

Caitlin Hardy: Thanks for having us.

Jeff Dance: I was really excited to learn more about our guests and kind of their depth of experience in the maritime economy and the blue economy and just the wealth of experience they had. I’m going to do a quick intro for those that don’t know our guests. Kendra MacDonald is the CEO of Canada’s Ocean Supercluster. It’s a national industry-led innovation organization focused on transforming Canada’s ocean economy through collaboration, technology and sustainability.

They have a partnership between the private sector and the federal government to drive sustainable increased economic growth from the oceans. Prior, she’s been both a partner and a leader at Deloitte worldwide across the world, Sydney, Moscow, Hong Kong. We share that in common. I actually started my career at Deloitte in their strategy group. And she’s led numerous nonprofits such as BioCANRx Newfoundland and more. So grateful to have you here with us, Kendra, and excited to go deeper.

Caitlin Hardy is the founder and managing director of Ness Sea. A strategic consulting firm at the intersection of maritime and tech, supporting both commercial and defense spaces, both anywhere from shipbuilding to novel new technology. Prior to founding NSC, Caitlin served as the president of Kongsberg Underwater Technology, which sounds really fun. She has quite the background and experience in space. She was also a graduate of the United States Naval Academy with a Bachelor of Science in naval architecture. She also holds an MBA here in University of Washington where we have a lot of blue initiatives, maritime initiatives. She’s also on the board of directors for the Washington Maritime Blue. So lots of great experience going into our conversation today. Thanks again for being here. Before we dive into kind of our topics, talking about the current state and the future state, tell me more about what you guys do for fun and does it ever cross over into the blue maritime space?

Caitlin Hardy: Sure, well thank you so much for having me, Jeff. I would say all of my favorite activities usually have to do with the water. So, grew up on a small island, so sailing is my favorite hobby, favorite pastime when I’m not hanging out with my family. I have a young son now, so that’s something that I’ve stepped away from to some degree just because it’s hard to be offshore away for the commitments that regattas have. But yeah, it’s been a lot of fun to always have sailing as that common thing that has kind of led me back to maritime and helped be a translator of understanding, you know, from the health of our oceans and how that’s kind of changed over my life seeing that racing but then also just like what it means to be connected to the water and the huge amount of fun that comes from that.

Jeff Dance: Great. Kendra, what about you?

Kendra MacDonald: So I grew up in the center of the country. So I actually grew up in Ottawa. My mother’s from Nova Scotia. So I think that for me, water’s always been associated with being on vacation. Although now I live in Newfoundland and Labrador, my husband actually is a sailor. He grew up here and is a sailor. So we actually have a family of a 16-year-old daughter and we really enjoy cruising. So we’re actually just getting ready to go cruising. We enjoy traveling overall, but cruising seems to be a formula that works for us. So I just enjoy. I can see actually the ocean from my house right now looking out, so it’s just always interesting to see the ever-changing landscape that that represents and then have the opportunity to be on the water and on vacation at the same time.

Jeff Dance: That’s awesome. There’s something special about water and just de-stressing. I’ve read a bit about it. But also, I think when you combine some of the passion and you get out on the water with family, that can be really unique. And especially with all of our focus on the digital and everything else, seems like that is, you know, it’s a great escape. It’s a way to de-stress. But it’s fun that you guys have those personal passions and I can see how some of that origin led to where your career and your passion is today with your work. So thanks for sharing that. I want to start with the definitions, especially for those that aren’t super familiar. Maybe Caitlin, let’s start with you and then Kendra, tell us how you define the blue economy and kind of in your own words.

What is the blue economy?

Caitlin Hardy: Sure, so I think this is something that’s evolved over time that people are maybe getting more comfortable to even know like there’s a blue economy. What’s that? Because we talk about so many different types of economies, but you know the majority of the planet is covered by water, not earth. So we probably should have been called water, ocean. And so I see the blue economy as anything from the bottom of the sea floor to, you know, the surface level, the creatures that live there, the ocean science that’s tied to that. There’s certainly the potential for aquaculture and what that means for a way to feed the planet from different proteins, and then certainly the digitalization side. Over 90 % of everything moves by ship. It’s our most energy-efficient way of moving goods around the planet. And so it’s sort of this all-encompassing way of the things that tie back to the ocean as a means for these different companies and organizations that are working in this space.

Jeff Dance: Thank you. I appreciate that big picture. Kendra, what else would you add to that?

Kendra MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the blue economy touches so many sectors. I think that’s what makes it one very interesting, but also very challenging to put your head around. Because if you think about food, if you think about energy, if you think about communications, you’re still in the blue economy. I do think that technology now is starting to tie that together. So you’re getting this concept of an ocean enterprise, which is sort of all of the data and all of the technologies that are enabling all those different sectors. I do like the World Bank has a definition that we tend to use, which is really around, you know, economic growth, but also tied to improved livelihoods and jobs and ocean health. So how do we make sure that we’re focused on the economic piece and the conservation piece at the same time?

Jeff Dance: It’s an important challenge, you know, especially today with everything that’s been shifting. So that’s great. Let’s talk about today and kind of some of the patterns, some of the changes you’re seeing. You just mentioned a couple, but maybe Kendra, we’ll start with you, given your work now. What are some of the things you’re seeing today, some of the changes that are occurring in the blue economy?

An economy accelerated by technology & digitalization

Kendra MacDonald: So I think what we are seeing really at speed is technology and digitalization. And so when I came into this role, you know, seven and a half years ago, it was all about digitalizing the ocean economy and bringing in technologies. We have seen that exponentially grow with AI over the last few years. And so we really are, I saved videos from when I first started, and it was back from the 60s. We can go deeper and farther than ever before. And every decade, I think that that continues and now we truly can go deeper and farther. We can get. There’s still lots of work to do in terms of mapping, but we have the technology to be able to get to those places. And so we’re heading to a place where you’ve got all of these platforms, as Caitlin talked about, all the layers, whether they’re satellites or drones or autonomous platforms and sensors and buoys, all these different technologies, and now they are creating all this data. And now we’re in this interesting moment of how do we take that data and turn it into information and then turn it into better decision-making. And then, with that, better use of the ocean resources that we have.

So I think it’s really exciting to see that happening. I was just in the UK last week and I’ve been there every second year for the last four years and the technologies and just the physical sensors and platforms and the speed with which they have been developed is really exciting.

Jeff Dance: Yeah, thank you. I was recently chatting with the CEO of Planet and, you know, they’re indexing the Earth now. I think they’re going from four hours to every hour and then they’re increasing how close they can get. And it was, you know, what satellites are doing to index the entire Earth, including all the ocean, and then being able to ask questions of that data set on a near-real-time basis is just like, blows my mind. We got into the meta about how he wants this data to support the super AI to even care about the Earth. I was like, wow, that’s a really interesting perspective. But this notion of rich data coming in and being able to access that data seems really, really exciting. Caitlin, what about you? What are some of the biggest patterns and changes you’re seeing right now?

Data ecosystems

Caitlin Hardy: I think the sheer amount of data is mind-blowing, and now it comes down to what do we do with that data? Because data for the sake of having data and just sitting on hard drives or in segmented clouds somewhere doesn’t necessarily serve us. And so it’s really looking at what are the different ecosystems where it becomes acceptable to share knowledge. And a lot of my background is more heavily maritime. The maritime industry doesn’t like to share amongst, you could look at different operating lines, right? And so if we’re looking at everything from OEMs for machinery and different components, that’s not something you want your competitors to know—how long are your pieces of equipment lasting or when are those going to fail? And you could say the same thing to some degree for the underwater mapping space, right? If you’re starting to use data as a service, data as a commodity, how does that shift sort of where the interest is or the “why” for the different players in this field?

And so I’ve never seen a more exciting time where there’s been more attention from those who don’t work in the blue economy, who are trying to start to understand what does this mean. But I think the roles that we see that are really interesting is, you know, with the increasing use of AI, it’s not necessarily about replacing people, but it’s about how do we solve these things more quickly and identify things and make, you know, the use of the large assets that we have more efficient. I’ll give a quick example. We are really fortunate to work with a company called StrateSea and they’re essentially a hydrographer doing bathymetry in a box. And so if you think about, you know, it’s so hard on the workforce development side today to find a lot of the people that we need for these roles, looking at the ways where AI can come in and help find things more quickly and be a tool for the researchers that we do have. So those are some of the areas that I’m really excited about.

Disruptors

Jeff Dance: That’s great. So a lot around data—kind of data access, sharing—even though, you know, there are barriers if that becomes like your competitive advantage and your focus, right? You mentioned an emerging player, StrateSea. Who are some of the other companies that you all are seeing as maybe potential future disruptors or that are picking up a lot of momentum right now? We’ve seen, obviously, in the last few years, some small AI companies become, like, big tech companies. And I would assume in the blue economy, there’s some similar trends going on, especially those that are taking advantage of this new tech. So any thoughts on emerging players? Maybe Kendra, we could start with you, then go back to Caitlin.

Kendra MacDonald: Yeah, so I’m really lucky. Canada Ocean Supercluster co-invests in technology commercialization, but we cover across sectors. And so, you know, as an example on the West Coast—and we also look at innovation in the technology and also innovation in the business model. So, for example, on the West Coast, we just announced a project with Canadian Pacifico, and they are actually looking at innovative ways to seed seaweed and to make that more efficient. Also, they are working in community and with Indigenous communities. And so that is the innovation of the technology itself in terms of the seaweed, but also the model in terms of how they’re working with community.

We have another one, sort of really different, which is carbon dioxide removal with Phaedran Technologies, and so they’re first-of-its-kind technology around bio-energy and carbon-dioxide removal, which is really exciting. And so that is in addition to the number of companies that are finding ways to bring AI with a sort of traditional user. Another example of that, which is really exciting, is that it was a tagging, fish-tagging company; that company is Novasea. And they’ve actually now pivoted to fish tag-less tracking using computer vision to identify fish moving in water. And then with that, they’re actually working with a power company to be able to more efficiently monitor and keep safe passage of fish. And so now the power company is more efficient because they’re able to better understand when the fish are passing and the fish are safer. And so there’s just example after example.

Maybe the last one I’ll talk about is a company called OnDeck. They started with a $10,000 prize as university students a few years ago, and that has turned into an AI—they were trying to help with fish inspection, which is a very manual process on the boat of looking at fish—and now they’ve pivoted more broadly to object detection and then a defense application. So a real dual-use example of being able to take one into the other. That’s about 150 examples, but anyway, that’s a few where you’re really seeing the tech industry coming together with the more traditional ocean industry and developing these new use cases.

Jeff Dance: Computer vision is really fun to see how that’s changing a lot of different landscapes and it seems basic—like if you can recognize everything without a lot of training and you have cameras that can pick that up, it just unlocks so many different, really innovative use cases across industries. Caitlin, what about you? What are some of the interesting disruptors that you’re seeing?

Caitlin Hardy: Sure, yeah, we’ve been fortunate to work with a lot, both through Ness Sea and through my work with Maritime Blue. You know, to the point you just made, I think a lot about how do you give people back time? How do you make people safer at sea? One of the companies that I’ve been really fascinated by is called Tokaro Blue. So they are doing real-time radar target tracking and classification. That sounds like a lot, but essentially if you think about, you know, you’re out on your pleasure boat and you’re playing around with your radar and trying to tune it to make sure you can see what’s coming, but not to lose something in the noise of weather. They do that automatically and then they’re assigning what is it that’s actually ahead of you or near you and keeping track of it. And so there’s certainly dual-use applications to it. It’s also really fascinating when you think about what’s going on in the Middle East right now when you look at those who are turning off AIS; if you have a way of being able to confirm that there is a vessel near you or a coastline, I think those are really interesting use cases.

We’ve been working with another company out of Iceland called Hefring Marine, and they came from a really interesting use case of where data eventually came in. They started out with Icelandic fishing vessels and whale-watching vessels because, as you can imagine, in Iceland and probably Newfoundland as well, there’s really big sea states.

And so they were seeing a lot of injuries—spinal injuries, traumatic brain injuries—from slamming factor, which means, you know, as you’re hitting a wave, what the human body and what a vessel’s being exposed to. And so they developed a system where they mount an IMU on board the hull and they have what’s called Safe Speed to help give the operator a better idea of how to drive and reducing that slamming by up to almost 90 %. So when you think about, you know, for fast vessels this can be a tremendous difference not just in how the war-fighter, the driver, is being impacted but also how you’re reducing the fatigue on your equipment.

By nature of having all these systems that are able to be out there and collecting data, they’re another one that by having the Icelandic fishing fleet, you know, being able to see so many of those vessels pulling that radar imagery, you’re able to see what’s going on around the GIUK gap—so Greenland and Iceland—and what’s happening from more maritime domain awareness. And so the plays I think that are really fascinating right now are the ones that certainly have a way of making people safer, are helping protect assets, have commercial applications, are making fishing—being able to see if illegal fishing is taking place—but also have that security side as well that can help support the friendly allied nations.

Driving growth

Jeff Dance: I love the theme here, the pattern of that dual use. It’s like there’s a commercial, there’s a government aspect, or there’s a sea-life health and human-health aspect. But then there’s the business aspect. It sounds like that’s a common intersection in the blue economy.

Kendra, the Ocean Supercluster is targeting a five-fold jump to like $220 billion in ocean GDP. How are you guys doing along that journey, and what do you think are some of the key things that will keep driving that growth?

Kendra MacDonald: That’s a great question. Part of that target is because Canada is really undersized. So if you look at our geography, we have the longest coastline in the world—about half of that is in the Arctic—and the fourth-largest ocean territory. But if you actually look at it, we don’t really think of ourselves as a maritime nation. And so we really under-contribute to GDP from the ocean economy. So if we said if we could be more consistent to the world average, that 3.2, we’re at about 1.8. What would that look like? That would be a doubling. And if we could do even better than that with how the overall global economy is growing—which is also important because the global economy is doubling and it’s three trillion and by 2050 significantly bigger than that. And so all of a sudden, $220 billion Canadian feels like a relatively small number.

I will say over the last five years, we have doubled the growth rate compared to the previous five years. But we’re not outpacing the growth at the level that we would need to, to get to where we’re trying to get to by 2035. I do think what will shift that is certainly this huge focus on defense globally, but certainly from a Canadian perspective—we just came out with our first defense industrial strategy. Obviously, having three borders that are water will drive a significant focus in terms of marine and Navy. Trade diversification as well, as we broaden out trade diversification, a lot of that trade happens by sea, so looking at investments into ports and shipping.

Also, technology. Canada does have significant strength in AI, got strength in quantum. We’re starting to see quantum sensors that are coming into the ocean economy as well, so I think we’ll see an acceleration there. And the big one for us that was access to capital. And so how we’ve got these technologies—how do we help them scale? And globally, there is a lack of capital in the ocean economy. And Canada struggles in terms of scaling technologies. And so if we can crack that, that’s one of our key focuses now: how do we attract that additional capital, how do we increase awareness of our investors so that we’re able to scale those solutions more quickly, not only domestically, but also internationally.

Navigating the regulatory landscape

Jeff Dance: Thanks for those insights. Caitlin, you’re running a company; you run companies. What are some of the bigger challenges you see for people coming into this space, entering the shipping, defense-kind blue economy? What are unique challenges to this space?

Caitlin Hardy: Yeah, there’s certainly a lot. For me that was really the motivation to start a consulting firm that was helping companies understand, you know, how can you look out over your skis? Because I was seeing so many incredible founders. Really, I would say it started at COVID where an ocean startup or maritime startup started to be a buzzword—maritime innovation. Before that, it just—you couldn’t find support. VCs weren’t willing to invest.

And so a lot of what we try to help companies do is really understand the regulatory landscape. If you’re on the vessel-centric side adding a new technology, or looking at going into shipbuilding, do you know what a class society is? How are you working with your local national regulatory agency—in the United States with the US Coast Guard?—and ensuring that those regulatory checks in the box that are there aren’t the reason why you run out of capital and that your technology, which could be earth-shattering, ocean-changing, is able to succeed.

I would also say, you know, within maritime, ocean—sort of all these different niches within the blue economy—maritime at large for the ocean shipping side has largely been familial. If you look globally, it’s quite a small number of companies. A lot of people that work in global shipping tend to know each other. And so how do you sort of break into that if you’re an outsider? It’s one of the stories I talk a lot about: I’d worked for a number of operating companies from tugboats to container ships to cruise ships leading up towards COVID, and I was always really frustrated at the resistance to new technology that had been proven in other, you know, more traditional heavy-asset industries like ours. And when COVID happened and people couldn’t travel as easily to visit their vessels, for me, that was the only positive thing that came out of COVID maybe was this sudden realization that you could see what was happening on board your vessels with cameras from, you know, all the sensors that you already had on board and how that was being fed back to the cloud.

And so I think really being able to help those who are on the outside not feel like outsiders and to bring them in and sort of operate within the confines that we have to have from a safety and international jurisdictions, but making sure that we’re not losing out because how often have we seen companies sort of try to reinvent the wheel themselves and you’re probably not going to get access to the top software-engineering talent if you’re trying to do that as a shipping company. But if you’re a software-based company and this is the only thing that you do and really have a niche expertise, then how do you start to get access to those customers for successful pilots?

Autonomy in the blue economy

Jeff Dance: One thing that we noticed is when we’re thinking about autonomy—we’ll get there next when we talk about the future—but we have been working with robotics for years and remote locations. When we first got into space like ten years ago, connectivity was always an issue because we were trying to, and so you just mentioned connectivity. Companies like Starlink have changed the game for some aspect of connectivity. Doesn’t always give you the bandwidth you’re looking for if you’re doing some heavy autonomy. But has that been a thing in the last five years that’s been kind of a big game-changer also in maritime, the more accessible satellite connection?

Caitlin Hardy: Absolutely. I mean, I think Starlink on its own, regardless of what people think about them, has changed everything. When you consider that most maritime operating companies five, certainly ten, years ago did not have satellite access, what does that mean for your crew on board? What does that mean for how they’re engaging with their family or their willingness to even go to sea and be disconnected? So that’s very much the human perspective of it.

But then when you look at—you sort of step through remotely operated vessels to crewed and all the way to autonomy—it’s really the enabler. So whether it’s Starlink—Amazon’s, I think, releasing Leo later this year—we’re starting to see so much, and especially in the Pacific Northwest, we have so much space, so it’s sort of choose who these different players are going to be. But it’s also revolutionized warfare. And when we look at what’s happening in Ukraine right now, satellite internet has been a huge part of that for the currency and how data is being exchanged.

Kendra MacDonald: I think—sorry, just going to add—I think that, you know, what we don’t always think about with autonomy is the importance of both battery life and communications, and that is incredibly important. And certainly as we’re thinking about living into the Arctic, that becomes even more complicated in terms of that ongoing communication. You’re continuing to see how much of the compute power you put on the edge—so into the ocean—versus how much comes back, the speed with which the data comes, and so it’s enabled.

So I was part of the workshop back in 2020 talking about data as part of the United Nations decade and this idea of a digital twin—sort of this real-time data from all over the ocean that supports different levels of decision-making. And so Europe actually is well on that journey. I think they’re trying to get there by 2030. They had a demonstration in France last year, and that is also enabled because you’ve got this improved communication. We’re nowhere near what you can do on land, but it is much, much improved to where it was five or ten years ago.

“Productivity, protection, and prosperity”

Jeff Dance: Yeah, I think most people don’t know that like the majority of the world’s not connected. And so to have this be almost like a railroad for innovation, you know, in our blue economy is—I think it’s been huge. We’ve seen it on land, but it’s interesting to hear about what’s going on in maritime.

To wrap up some of the current state, as we think about the blue economy and how it’s growing and how it’s changing, is GDP. Kendra, you mentioned GDP—GDP for Canada. What are some other kind of common metrics that the blue economy uses to kind of measure success or progress?

Kendra MacDonald: So I like—so the high-level panel on sustainability, I think it came out in 2018 and it’s got an increasing number of countries that participate. And what’s really interesting, I find, with the work that they’ve done is they have demonstrated that a healthy ocean is also a more productive ocean. They’ve also demonstrated how the ocean has solutions—sustainable solutions. Whether you look at offshore wind or you look at carbon-dioxide removal. And so the ocean can help heal itself and some of the challenges that it’s facing. But they talk about productivity, protection, and prosperity being inter-linked. And so I really like that. I think that we can’t make a decision around GDP that compromises ocean health. We need to be measuring that as well. And we talk a lot about the sustainable blue economy, heading to that world of regenerative blue economy is now what we start hearing about. And so how do you actually create solutions that create a healthier ocean in what it is that you’re developing?

Jeff Dance: Caitlin, anything else to add?

Caitlin Hardy: I mean, it’s, you know, separate and not sort of personal versus being an American, right? I think it’s such an interesting time right now—how the U.S. is potentially looking at oceans and, you know, the international stage. It’s very much about which languages you can use to translate with people so they understand. Having multiple ways of talking about it shows that ultimately we need our oceans to be healthy to ensure food security. From a national-security perspective, that resource matters.

I also find it interesting to see the conversations at the IMO around fuels and what the future looks like. Those who can speak in different models have a huge benefit because it helps more people understand why having a healthy ocean is critical versus just using it to take what you can.

Jeff Dance: Yeah, I love that balance in the ecosystem. The world runs on it. Seeing that yin–yang in nature—or in ourselves—helps us realize how important balance is; any extreme can damage the overall system. I love the concept of self-healing. We saw some of that during COVID, when we weren’t traversing the waters and things began to rebuild naturally.

The notion of healthy oceans driving productivity shows business value too. It makes sense that we need deep collaboration between enterprise and government, and country to country, and that we must think holistically, not short-term. Thanks for those thoughts. Let’s jump to the future.

The connectivity “unlock” and what’s ahead

As you think about the blue economy, what changes will we see 10 years from now? Connectivity has been an unlock; data is giving us collective insights. Where does that take us? Caitlin, start with you—thoughts on the future and where we’re going?

Caitlin Hardy: It’s exciting and also terrifying because things are changing so quickly. On the regulatory side, technology will keep developing. Commercial maritime can’t always advance as fast as it wants, but defense can. We’re looking at an Arctic with navigable waters year-round, probably 10 years from now. That’s sad in one sense, but what does it mean for trade routes, the Arctic, and the vessels moving through?

I expect continued proliferation—not necessarily of fully autonomous vehicles, but of adaptive driving. Any new car has a backup camera and parking assist; those don’t replace the driver like Waymo does, but we need more of that aboard vessels. Reducing task saturation would let crews focus. Regulation should move faster because the tech is here, and that will help areas with workforce shortages.

On future fuels, we’re seeing a lot of interest in nuclear—particularly micro-modular models. Governments will have to adjust, but people often envision a giant aircraft carrier reactor. Instead, imagine something that fits on a fishing boat without the environmental risks historically associated with nuclear.

Jeff Dance: That’s awesome. A lot of the adaptive—or safety-oriented—technology already exists, yet it’s not in our boats. We see strong parallels in air and on land; there’s catching up to do and plenty of opportunity—even in recreational boating. I have a backup camera now, but why not more help in high wind? Interesting to hear about small-form nuclear in everyday vessels.

Jeff Dance: Are there companies to watch in that space?

Caitlin Hardy: Yes—check out Emerald Nuclear. They’re based in Seattle and Norway and have an active project in Norway. If you follow ABS or Lloyd’s Register, you’ll see class societies recognizing this isn’t science fiction anymore; governments have motivation to investigate. I like Emerald’s approach because they’re targeting multiple vessel segments—potentially thousands—with cleaner power. Many on their team came from space, where they worked on nuclear applications, and they’re applying that knowledge to maritime.

Jeff Dance: Great. Kendra, your thoughts on the next 10 years? You mentioned 2035 and 2050—tell us more.

Kendra MacDonald: We’ve talked about autonomy and connectivity. Ten years out, I expect real-time access to collected data and, hopefully, that we’ve cracked the nut on data sharing—what’s truly commercially sensitive versus shareable—and interoperability. About 74 % of the seafloor still needs high-fidelity mapping; I hope that will be complete.

We’re also seeing movement on monitoring biodiversity beyond national jurisdictions—new technologies and governance models are emerging. Another theme is community: data sovereignty and working with Indigenous groups, especially as we move into the Arctic. Building capacity, moving away from diesel, and enabling community sovereignty will reshape business models in these sectors.

Jeff Dance: So, much work ahead on data initiatives and accessibility, with big community implications.

What technology disruptions will pave the way? Often it’s the convergence—AI plus something else—that unlocks new possibilities. Caitlin?

Caitlin Hardy: Exactly. Three-quarters of the ocean remains unmapped; once we map it, who knows what we’ll discover—maybe millions of new species. Many countries have moratoriums on deep-sea mining; it’s one thing to see what’s there, another to take it. Meanwhile, energy companies are exploring floating offshore wind and wave power.

A key enabler is deep-sea anchoring: new tech to keep structures in place while minimizing impact on marine mammals and ecosystems. Imagine recharging nodes around the ocean—robots wouldn’t need huge batteries; they could “phone home” to underwater charging stations. That would change how vessels and robots operate.

We’re heading toward “persistent presence”

Kendra MacDonald: We’re heading toward “persistent presence.” Sensors and platforms must get smaller, go deeper, and last longer, while algorithms get smarter. Quantum computing will feed into that. The balance of human-in-the-loop versus automated decision-making will keep shifting.

Instrumenting the ocean leads to better marine-protected-area design, conservation, and climate-impact understanding. But much of this occurs in international waters, requiring cooperation despite today’s geopolitical tensions—what will that look like in a decade?

Jeff Dance: With mapping, autonomy, and guidance layers, we could locate anything—be it a military threat or harvestable sea life—quickly. On autonomy, I’ve noticed the MAS code becomes mandatory in 2032. Do you envision more robots in navigation and more mixed crews? Thoughts?

Caitlin Hardy: I have frustrations with MAS. The building blocks for autonomy started with dynamic-positioning systems in the 1970s. Today, defense has leap-frogged commercial in autonomy, which isn’t bad, but the learning isn’t always shared. Commercial pioneers—Reach Subsea with Kongsberg, Ocean Infinity—purposely build vessels to deploy autonomous systems.

We shouldn’t pursue autonomy for its own sake; do it when it makes business sense—fewer trucks on roads, lower cost to customer, or when crew is the most expensive element.

Kendra MacDonald: From a governance view, maritime law assumes a crewed vessel and an owner on land who can’t easily communicate. Autonomy changes that: the operator might be thousands of miles away. International agreements need updating. Robotics are already inspecting oil-and-gas platforms and hard-to-reach places. Underwater autonomous vehicles handle inspections. We’ll see fewer people aboard ships and more tech—and robots alongside humans.

Jeff Dance: Robots excel at dirty, dull, dangerous jobs—plenty of those in maritime. AI has accelerated robotics dramatically.

On sustainability, entrepreneurs need to earn revenue yet guard ocean health. How do you advise balancing profit and purpose?

Ocean entrepreneurs

Kendra MacDonald: Most entrepreneurs today don’t want to harm the ocean; they recognize we’ve damaged it. A healthier ocean is more productive. Canada has a moratorium on seabed mining, but companies explore ways to extract nodules without harm—or conclude that land-based mining may be worse. Many aim not just for “do no harm” but for regenerative solutions.

Caitlin Hardy: I agree. The next generation is mission-driven. Commercially, it’s straightforward to align with sustainability values. In the U.S. landscape, energy resiliency remains key; sustainable solutions entrepreneurs create today are essential for the future. AI helps partner academic research with product-focused founders.

Jeff Dance: Any other future thoughts? You mentioned carbon reduction and the blue economy helping other sectors.

Kendra MacDonald: We haven’t talked much about undiscovered species. As we identify them, ocean-derived ingredients will transform beauty, pharmaceuticals, fashion, and agriculture—seaweed-based plastics, natural wraps, etc. Ocean tourism will persist but evolve; what travelers seek will change.

Caitlin Hardy: When everyday consumers realize these aren’t niche “hippie” products but affordable, mainstream options, they’ll care more about the ocean. As oceans lift people out of poverty with regenerative food sources, behaviors around pollution should shift.

Kendra MacDonald: Storytelling is key—connecting community and ocean stories. Design schools now explore how to tell those stories. Fear motivates less than inspiration and understanding; we need more of the latter.

Jeff Dance: Final question: what’s been most rewarding about working in the blue economy, and any advice for others who want in?

“Community is everything”

Caitlin Hardy: I’m grateful to work worldwide in ocean-related roles. Community is everything. You can genuinely love your job here—find what you’re good at and apply it.

Kendra MacDonald: I get excited seeing technologies we funded come to life. We started the Supercluster to change how ocean business collaborates. Ocean careers are diverse; autonomy even creates shore-based maritime jobs. Tech skills, sustainability challenges—there’s so much to explore. I encourage anyone to research and get excited like we are.

Jeff Dance: I love the duality of sustainability and innovation. There’s so much opportunity for good—both planetary and business—on our water-dominated planet. Thanks again for sharing your passion and making a difference. Loved having you on the show.

Kendra MacDonald: Thank you.

Caitlin Hardy: Thank you.