This episode explores the current state and future of indoor mapping with Christian Christensen of MapsPeople. The discussion covers how indoor mapping technology transforms navigation inside complex venues, the growing importance of real-time updates and data layers, and the convergence of AI, sensors, and spatial computing. Additional topics include privacy-first design, the business value of indoor mapping, and the potential for gamification and personalization in indoor digital experiences.

Podcast Transcript:

Jeff Dance: In this episode of The Future Of, we’re joined by Christian Christensen, Chief Product Officer and Technology Officer of MapsPeople, to explore the future of indoor mapping. By way of introduction, Christian has 15 years of digital product experience, working as a product leader at several SaaS and software companies. Prior to joining MapsPeople, he founded and grew his own software startup, which was acquired in 2014. He’s really laid the foundation for product management and product design at MapsPeople and is involved in the current and future state of mapping innovation. We’re grateful to have you here with us, Christian.

Christian Christensen: Thanks for having me.

Jeff Dance: And he’s in Denmark, so it’s Friday at 7 p.m. We’re really grateful you’re joining us at this hour. Apparently, with some kids out of the house, it’s a little easier at this time.

Christian Christensen: Yeah, there was nothing good on TV anyway. This is much more fun.

Jeff Dance: Thank you. What do you do for fun before we dive into some of the technical stuff?

Christian Christensen: I wanted to say I try to get back into running, but I’m really bad at it. Getting older makes it really hard. So I think I’m a nerd at heart. I love playing around with different AI tools and building apps in my free time, trying to solve problems in new ways, and reading books. But if you ask my wife, I don’t really read—I just keep the books.

Jeff Dance: I do the same sometimes. With the advent of AI, if you’re a tech nerd like me, it’s hard not to be playing with all the latest and greatest stuff because it’s coming out on a weekly basis. It’s like Christmas—there’s an explosion of cool new stuff and it’s hard not to go deep. Well, it’s great to have you here with us. Just to get started—

Christian Christensen: It’s Christmas every day.

Jeff Dance: For a lot of people, they may not be familiar with indoor mapping. We’re talking about digital indoor mapping, but what’s the simplest way to explain it for people who aren’t familiar with it?

Christian Christensen: I get this question sometimes. What I usually say is that it’s kind of like Google Maps. Everyone has used Google Maps, GPS, or Apple Maps on their phone. This is really taking that experience indoors. The difference is the buildings, rooms, tables, chairs—whatever level of detail you want to bring to life. The challenge is how often things change indoors. Outdoors, a road usually keeps the same name for 50 years, but indoors, rooms change, merge, split, or get rearranged. The functionality of a space changes often, and you need to adapt to that. If you don’t, you can’t really use the map. We’ve all driven through an intersection that suddenly changed, and it takes forever to get updated. Then the map isn’t usable, and you stop trusting the GPS if it leads you down a bike path. The same thing goes for indoor maps, just at a different scale. You have to make sure things are up to date all the time, or people stop using it.

Jeff Dance: What are some of the top use cases? MapsPeople is one of the world leaders in indoor mapping, but where might we experience your maps?

Christian Christensen: Often, we work behind the scenes for a lot of big companies, providing data and maps that are integrated into their products. This can be the data itself or Maps Indoors as an SDK, where you can integrate it to get wayfinding, search, and map visualization. Usually, we’re part of different applications, from big stadiums to corporate office applications where you can do desk or room booking, or at festivals. We can’t talk much about specific clients because of agreements, but one use case that surprises people is that we’re part of applications that help prevent school shootings or increase the likelihood of a safe evacuation in emergencies like a shooting or fire. So we can help save lives and make people safe, and in other experiences, help people have a great time at a stadium, festival, or at work. It’s very versatile.

Jeff Dance: We use Google Maps, Apple Maps, or Waze every day outside, but when you get into large buildings like malls, airports, or schools, it can be confusing to navigate. That’s a primary use case, but you’re saying there are many other ancillary use cases beyond navigation, like booking or evacuation.

Christian Christensen: Yes. For example, we have a customer who has seven different applications built on the same map. It’s really seen as infrastructure—much more than just a map. It’s a digital building that can be used in different ways. You don’t have to show a map; it can also be just the API response and data from the digital building. For a stadium, they might want to deliver a fan experience, but also a planning experience before an event. They can use the overview of the stadium to place things and design the experience, or for security to see where the cameras are and check for blind spots, using it as a live view for switching between cameras during an event. For example, during the Super Bowl at these stadiums, fire personnel need to take care of things without physically going into the stadium. You can use sensors and IoT tags to get live positions of people and get notified if something is going on that shouldn’t be. That’s just a few examples of what our customers are building on the same platform. People usually start with one thing and then discover there’s a lot of value in building out different use cases because they’ve already paid for the platform, so they might as well leverage it.

Jeff Dance: So it’s not just the navigation of maps and having the maps, but layering different data on top that can provide value to different sets of users who might need the map.

Christian Christensen: Exactly. It is a digital infrastructure. It’s not just the same map—you can have different versions or hide and show different things depending on the use case. You can allow users to access just parts of the data or all of it, depending on their access level. For example, a visitor at a corporate office might see the reception and the meeting room they’re invited to, but not the back-of-house areas. An admin or maintenance employee can see much more because they need to access certain areas. That can affect wayfinding and search.

Jeff Dance: We’ve heard the term “digital twin” for a long time, but there’s some confusion around the space. There are lots of different applications trying to mirror a digital version of a physical environment. Is it safe to say that MapsPeople is also a backbone for digital twins if you can integrate all this data and sensors within it?

Christian Christensen: Yes, exactly. The big difference is that we typically call it BIM—building information management models. We’re different from traditional digital twins, which can be very technical. We’re focused on the experience of people using the room—how many people can be in a room, what’s available, is it bookable, opening hours, and so on—not where the Wi-Fi cables or pipes are. We think more about the user experience and the data needed for end users, as well as delivering a great-looking experience.

Jeff Dance: That sounds great. My team here is reconnecting my camera. Do you want me to go back and repeat a couple questions?

Jeff Dance: Speaking of AI, what are some of the most recent developments in indoor mapping, and what’s on the feature roadmap for MapsPeople in the near term?

Christian Christensen: As we’ve talked about, it’s no surprise that Maps Indoors is also working on and integrating AI into our products. Everyone is thinking about how to make technology more useful and usable for the end user. The way we search has changed—people still Google, but even Google is changing. Now you get AI snippets and can ask questions in new ways, similar to how you would with ChatGPT. That’s the direction we’re going as well, providing information in different ways—not necessarily through a map. That’s one shift: it used to be static floor plans, then we built the best 3D maps in the business—high fidelity, best detail, best customization. The next wave is about delivering what we call a spatial experience, not necessarily map-first. It might be an AI experience, text, or something else integrated into the product. You could show a map, but you don’t always need to. Showing a map is great, but it also requires effort from the user to figure out where to click, search, and tap to find what they want. Instead, they could just ask and get the result, with the map as a supporting UI element. The future is bright for AI helping end users get a better, more helpful experience, no matter the situation—corporate office, stadiums, manufacturing, anything.

Jeff Dance: MapsPeople isn’t just a map—they have a lot of data around location and spaces. What I’m understanding is that the map is a utility, but there are many other ways to deliver that utility to the user, especially as we think about natural language and AI.

Christian Christensen: Exactly.

Jeff Dance: When talking to customers, there’s been more emphasis recently, especially with the economy and how fast AI is changing. Many people are experimenting, but to actually spend money and do bigger programs, there’s a focus on value. How are we getting value, and can we guarantee it? Where are you seeing the biggest return on investment for people thinking about indoor maps? There are millions of businesses worldwide large enough to use indoor maps in various ways, but where do you see the best ROI?

Christian Christensen: It really depends on the vertical—corporate office, stadiums, festivals, events, conference centers. The use case varies, but there’s clear ROI in all of them. For events and conferences, it’s about sponsorships and driving more revenue, visitors, and attention—like other digital products as part of a package. For corporate offices, especially after COVID and with return-to-office mandates, many companies can’t fit all employees in their buildings at the same time. They have to either buy new real estate or create a digital experience to enable hybrid work. For large enterprises, keeping things up to date is a real headache, with daily changes on corporate campuses. We help make hybrid work a great experience—so employees don’t show up to find no seats or that their desk was moved and maps aren’t updated. Accurate representation is something we care a lot about.

Jeff Dance: That’s great. Looking to the future, how do you see things evolving? You talked about spatial computing, and we had a separate episode on that, given the growing importance of 3D. Tell us more about your thoughts on the future and how it connects with spatial computing.

Christian Christensen: Spatial computing is something we’ve looked into for many years. Sadly, a lot of it has been hype so far. AR—augmented reality—is a good example. We keep hoping for a breakthrough because it could provide a better experience, but often it turns out to be more of a gimmick. It hasn’t been fully unlocked by big companies like Apple or Google, even though they’ve tried. Customers talk about it, but we don’t see users adopting it in a meaningful way—yet. That could change when someone unlocks the user experience and finds great use cases. VR—virtual reality—is similar.

Christian Christensen: The biggest issue for spatial computing is still device cost. The Apple Vision Pro is the best device out there, but it’s still very expensive for an individual. It’s a very personal, singular experience and doesn’t scale well because it requires a specific device. AR, on the other hand, is now available on every iPhone or Android device, so it can deliver that experience more broadly.

Jeff Dance: Right, right.

Christian Christensen: Yeah, I think AI in the mix of a lot of these technologies is going to unlock something within the next three years. I’m excited to see how that unfolds. As device prices become more affordable, hopefully Apple or other big companies like Microsoft will release new devices. We’ve all seen the glasses, right?

Jeff Dance: Agreed.

Jeff Dance: Meta.

Christian Christensen: I think it’s when this technology gets out of the innovation crowd and into the hands of regular users who see value in it for everyday life, then it will be adopted. Whether that’s in one year or three years, that’s a good question. I don’t think I have the answer.

Jeff Dance: What about digital twins? How do you see things evolving with indoor mapping dovetailing with digital twins? There’s been a lot of hype, but it seems like things are converging in a way that will make that more of a reality for companies.

Christian Christensen: The biggest surprise I have is that there aren’t a lot of companies aware that you can get an indoor map today. It still surprises people that this technology is available and they wonder how to get started or what it actually requires. I think we’ll see almost an explosion in the next three to five years of companies understanding how easy it is to get started and how the cost of entry will keep getting lower. Some of that is due to AI, and some is just technology investments in the experience you can deliver. Maps were pretty boring five years ago because of the limitations of the devices we used every day. Even with iPhones or Android phones, the computational limitations were significant.

Jeff Dance: Right.

Christian Christensen: You couldn’t really deliver something dynamic with lots of cool data visualizations. Today, some of the things we deliver on a standard device are almost like a full 3D game experience—fully customizable, brandable, and dynamic in ways that weren’t possible just a few years ago. The bar has really been raised, and we’re trying to push that as high as possible.

Jeff Dance: As the world leader in indoor mapping, having that data layer will be critical for the future. If we’re all wearing glasses with AR, or even a third of us are, I was at the Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle last night, and it’s an everyday thing to navigate a big space. Having that data would be a great use case for navigating with AR and being able to talk to things or get directions. We did some work at the Spurs Stadium with AI—fan GPT—to help people navigate. I assume the convergence of AR, indoor mapping, and AI is going to make things really exciting. Are there other technologies you think are relevant? We see a lot of technologies converging, and that’s where disruption happens. Can you think of other technologies that will come into play, or is it just more sensors and data being added to the mix?

Christian Christensen: Definitely sensors. Sensors are going to become default in more places, and having that data available in spatial experiences with AI will make it possible to deliver much more. For example, in a stadium, if you know how long the queue is at a bathroom or food line, you can choose something else, get recommendations, or know when to get back to your seat for the game.

Jeff Dance: Food line, yeah.

Christian Christensen: So, I think it’s going to be a much fuller and more agentic experience. Sensors are a big deal, and there will be more types than we know today because they’ll be cheaper and easier to install, with longer battery life. In the past, you wouldn’t want to install a sensor if it only had a one-year battery life, because it becomes unreliable when the battery runs out.

Jeff Dance: Mm-hmm.

Christian Christensen: For any meaningful experience, you need reliability. Another thing is IPS—indoor positioning systems. Different technologies can give you what is best known as the “blue dot” from GPS, providing accurate indoor positioning, even by floor. Bluetooth and Wi-Fi are typical technologies we use. Some Bluetooth sensors now have a 10-year battery life, which makes them much more practical. If you have to change the battery every year or two, it becomes an annoyance and more costly. But 10 years is a different ballgame, and it provides new types of experiences. We used to talk about 5G providing indoor positioning, but that never really got accurate enough. I do think, though, that future technologies will give us accurate indoor positioning without needing additional infrastructure.

Jeff Dance: Right.

Christian Christensen: Many Wi-Fi access points installed in buildings today have Bluetooth built in. As buildings get remodeled, these technologies are becoming standard, making it possible to deliver a blue dot without additional installs or battery concerns.

Jeff Dance: That’s great. I love the feature of indoor positioning. Most people don’t know how hard it is to do indoor positioning. We understand GPS, but indoors, that signal doesn’t always work. In robotics, where we need high accuracy for people and robots, it’s actually a difficult challenge. It’s good to hear your confidence about the infrastructure. A lot is being done with Wi-Fi for detecting people. We’ve been integrating with beacons, and there’s a big difference between a one-year battery life and the six-year battery life we’re working with. Having beacons and additional data from Wi-Fi, plus sensors detecting presence or issues, and tying that into a map to make an intelligent ecosystem—either for everyday use or emergencies—seems exciting.

Christian Christensen: Yeah.

Jeff Dance: As we think about sensors and data bringing together more intelligence about where people are and availability, you cross into privacy and ethics. Where do you see that as a concern, and how do you support companies serious about privacy and data? There’s a difference between capturing everyone’s face and identifying them, versus just detecting presence like a light sensor. How have you thought about the ethical or privacy side?

Christian Christensen: That’s a great question. Some customers are very concerned about these issues. One of the things we’ve done for many years is build privacy-first. The Maps Indoors platform doesn’t know anything about the individual user; we don’t track anyone. It’s up to the customer to decide what they want to track and the use case they want to build. We don’t track people or their positions. If there’s a blue dot, it’s on the individual’s device and only they can see it. It’s possible for a customer to implement tracking, but the user would know about it. This is important for these technologies, and we’ve had a lot of conversations with customers who are concerned about monitoring. Some partners set up privacy zones, where tracking is disabled or accuracy is reduced. You might know what floor someone is on, but not their exact location.

Jeff Dance: Hmm.

Christian Christensen: That’s meant for knowing if someone is in the office or attending a meeting, not for micromanagement. If you start tracking how long someone is at the coffee machine, it stops being about creating an innovative workplace and becomes about monitoring and statistics. That doesn’t work. It’s very important to build these solutions with privacy in mind, or users will avoid them.

Jeff Dance: Right, right. So, privacy first, no tracking of people, and leaning away from monitoring individuals. You may monitor status for usability or safety, but not track individuals.

Christian Christensen: Exactly, unless that’s the explicit use case. For example, firefighters in a stadium know they’re being tracked with wearables, and they’ve been told. In those cases, it’s fine. But if it’s hidden—tracking via Wi-Fi to see if John is at his desk or out talking—that’s different.

Jeff Dance: Right.

Christian Christensen: We see this with remote work, where some companies track screenshots, typing, or mouse movement. It just creates a different type of work environment and output. Enforcing those things changes the workplace.

Jeff Dance: Right, right.

Jeff Dance: Thank you. Looking to the future, are there any other advancements in indoor mapping or wayfinding you’re really excited about?

Christian Christensen: There are a lot of interesting technologies. It’s like Christmas in some areas. The combination of technologies is really interesting—everything from drones to robot vacuums using SLAM, another type of mapping technology that creates 3D models. Some industries are maturing, and you wonder why there isn’t a map in the supermarket. Some of it is because supermarkets don’t have good digital models; it’s still very analog. Many industries are still analog regarding where things are and how they manage or maintain that. As this becomes more digitized, it becomes easier to create something usable for both consumers and employees, like refilling shelves or managing a store.

One misconception in mapping is that it’s only interesting for first-time visitors. If you build a static experience, that can be true. But if you make the map the heartbeat of a stadium, for example—showing live scores, key player info, concession stand sales, or discounts—it becomes much more engaging. The same goes for corporate offices and other places. Creating a unified, personalized experience can make a big difference.

Jeff Dance: Awesome. So not just the convergence of AI, sensors, and AR with maps and map data powering incredible experiences, but the dynamic aspect—once we have data streaming in, the map becomes part of the live experience, not just something static. And to build on that, what I heard from you, which is really interesting, is personalization.

Christian Christensen: Exactly.

Jeff Dance: So it could consider me and some of my unique characteristics to make it more personalized.

Christian Christensen: Yes, exactly. You can essentially turn anything on or off on a map. We have high-fidelity 3D models, and you can add anything—make it part of your brand, or make it personal, like selecting an avatar. How do I want to look on the map? How do my colleagues look? Gamification is about making it personal, brandable, and engaging. How do we make people want to use the digital products we build? In our case, it’s easy to change these things—it doesn’t require much coding. You can make it personal and fun.

Gamification isn’t just about leaderboards; it can also be about visualizing status on a map. For corporate offices, if your goal is to bring people back, you create a great physical environment and support it with digital experiences. Maybe if you come in four days a week, your avatar changes, or you get a golden chair at your desk—something fun and visible to others. If people are talking at the coffee machine, maybe that’s visualized. There are so many ways to make the experience playful and interesting, so people come back and use it more. Some companies use these apps for daily check-ins or as a key card to enter the building, which is also a window to show people new things and encourage engagement.

Some companies change the layout of the space weekly, so it’s not just an office—it could be a conversation room or a workshop area. How do they make people aware of these changes and make the spaces attractive to use and book? That can spark innovation. We had a food truck festival, and we visualized that outside the lab. It’s something they can add themselves in our CMS to make it look interesting.

Jeff Dance: I love the idea of making it more playful or gamified in different use cases. It reminds me of building large indoor mapping applications for venues that bring in tens of thousands of people from around the world. At these events, people come from different countries, and connecting people from different backgrounds is interesting. Have you thought about the social connection aspect of indoor mapping—like sharing data to meet up at a location? Is that a current or future use case?

Christian Christensen: I would say it’s not about tracking people and bringing that data in, at least not right now, but it’s definitely possible. If you have location data, you could show that on the map to bring people together. Some companies use maps to give certain spaces special meaning—quiet zones, collaboration spaces, etc.—to attract different types of people. Visualizing that on the map makes it a repeatable action. For your example, you could show nationalities with flags, or visualize how many people from a certain area are together and make that an achievement or interesting visualization.

Jeff Dance: Or a meeting place for people with certain characteristics, rather than tracking them.

Christian Christensen: Exactly. Using a flag or a characteristic as a rally point, and changing it from week to week. It’s not static. That can be a digital way to alter behavior or spark meaningful connections in an office.

Jeff Dance: Facilitating connection via location. That’s great. Well, Christian, it’s been amazing talking to you. One last question: as someone who’s a world leader in indoor mapping as CTO of MapsPeople, what’s been the most rewarding experience for you in this industry so far?

Christian Christensen: It might sound cheesy, but it’s talking with our customers and seeing how they’ve implemented our product and the excitement about what we’re doing together. Some of the things they’re building are even cooler than I imagined. Sometimes we build something with a specific use case in mind, and then we see it applied in unexpected ways. The school shooting prevention use case is one I didn’t anticipate, but it’s possible to save lives while also creating great stadium experiences. Helping people find their way and save time—these are things we might not value enough, but we’re helping people every day get to what they need faster and in a more enjoyable way. I’m quite proud of that.

Jeff Dance: You should be proud. We’re grateful to have you on the show, grateful for your expertise and passion. Excited to watch where this space goes under your leadership and to collaborate in the future. Thank you.

Christian Christensen: Thank you for having me.